This is Part 2 of our interview with Grace Beatrice Olson, and it really is a treasure. In a congregation nearly 160 years old, not often do pastors have the opportunity to converse with members who have connections to the congregation’s founding. Grace was able and willing to share stories from farm life and early St. Paul’s church and school. We talk about the development of hymnals, its use as a prayer book, her fascinating work history for the Pabst family (of Pabst Brewing fame), and her marriage and family life with Duane Olson. Grace’s is a story of dedication to Christ, and the sustaining activities of worship and life that need to be heard by moderns who have so much disconnection from God and the land.
Recorded 15 April, A.D. 2024
[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you get to be an old person, there are so many people that shape your mind.
[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Who you are, it's all the experiences that you've had with all these wonderful people.
[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And I must say, I've met very few bad people in my life.
[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I've always tried to see the good part, forget about the bad, because we all have a little bad on us.
[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Christ In All Things, a conversation about meaning and purpose.
[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It's based on a verse from the Bible, Colossians chapter 1 verse 17 which says,
[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Christ is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Christ In All Things is a listening ear into conversations about receiving and giving the love and hope of Christ.
[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: These conversations are an invitation because as much as you'll hear and as much as we enjoy having them,
[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: digital media operates from a distance. And that's not what's best for us, with God or with one another.
[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So, thanks for listening. And if you're in the neighborhood, we invite you to participate in person
[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in the life that finds its epicenter at St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 210 East Pleasant Street in O'Connor, Wisconsin.
[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Christ In All Things. I am Pastor Lance ODonnell.
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Pastor Jason Shockman, and if you missed the last episode, we were talking with Grace Beatrice Olson,
[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and it was a joy and pleasure. Folks, please go listen to that one.
[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But this is our second part, Grace, of our interview with you.
[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And we were talking a little bit behind the stage here, our off air.
[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I want to come back to where we were. You said you were born in 1933, and this sanctuary that we currently worship in here at St. Paul's,
[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: they began construction somewhere in the...
[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: 1915.
[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: 1915's and finished in 1917 and dedicated the sanctuary in 1917.
[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So, that was a few years before you were born, but not too many.
[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you grew up going to that sanctuary for church.
[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Did your family have a pew where everybody sat in the same spot every week?
[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, basically where I sit.
[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And we came to church every Sunday.
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: On the pulpit's, or lectern side, about three-fifths of the way back?
[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Outside Isle?
[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Outside Isle. Well, there were six of us.
[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: My mother would go in first and then the six kids, and Daddy would be at the end.
[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And every now and then my mother would say, poke Daddy.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Poke Daddy, poke Daddy, poke Daddy.
[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Just hand it down the line and tell the kid next to Daddy would poke him.
[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: He was kind of sleeping.
[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he got up at five o'clock in the morning and so then he would shake his head.
[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But how six of us kids and my mother and dad fit in that little Ford coop I will never know.
[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But we must have sat on each other's laps or something.
[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But we came to church every single Sunday.
[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we got home, we would have to go upstairs and change our clothes because there was, there were church clothes.
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And we hung them up until the next Sunday, but probably washed once a month or something.
[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But like I say, we didn't have running water.
[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, but every Sunday afternoon we would have visitors at the farm.
[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It was called at the farm, my aunts and uncles and cousins.
[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up with everybody.
[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So Sunday was kind of a Sabbath with your family, a day of rest with your family?
[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you had, I imagine we had early morning chores.
[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You had to milk the cows first thing regardless, right?
[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then Sundays we would eat in the big dining room.
[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: On the weekdays, we ate in the kitchen with the old cook stove and it was warmer there.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So.
[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to touch again that where you've worshipped your whole life has been that sanctuary and those same pews for 91 years.
[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a long time.
[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a great blessing that not many people can say, right?
[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Not many people can say I've worshipped in one church, one sanctuary my whole life.
[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm guessing, not guessing, I know the hymn has changed a little bit over that timeframe, hasn't it?
[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I bought a hymn book that I got from my graduation confirmation.
[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty well worn.
[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And this is the Lutheran hymnal published in 1941.
[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's got a black soft cover and it has your name engraved in the front.
[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And the back, 1948 on the back.
[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And the year that it was given to you on the back.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Grace, how have you used that hymnal since it was given to you?
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I have this sitting on my coffee table at all times and I use it as a prayer list now.
[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever page I go to, it's a wonderful thing.
[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And we traveled and this was always traveling with me.
[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Always first thing in the suitcase.
[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: First thing in the suitcase?
[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So you said you use it as a prayer book.
[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you do that with your hymnal?
[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I just open it up every night to wherever it lands and I say the prayers.
[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were wonderful hymns.
[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so many of them I know from memory because we had to recite all those poems cover to cover verse to verse.
[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of...
[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that something you guys did in school?
[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Here at St. Paul's Woodpecker?
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Polin was.
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And he was very strict if you said,
[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You for thou, you started over.
[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: You started over.
[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So he was wonderful.
[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And then at Christmas time we would go into the big church about a month before Christmas
[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and all the school kids and we would rehearse Christmas songs for the Christmas night.
[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And the kids all sang on Christmas Eve or something?
[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We all set a piece and then after the service they came in great big buckets of big bags of candy.
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've heard of that but there's apple in them, great big apple in orange and mixed nuts and candy.
[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So we were looking forward to that.
[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a very German thing.
[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03]: To give an apple and an orange and some nuts and some candies.
[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And then my parents would bring us on Christmas Eve when we had the services.
[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents would bring us into town to stay with my grandma because my dad wouldn't get here in time for the service to start.
[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So my grandma on both sides, Grandma Waltman, she belonged to this church and Willie Miller and her father, her brother and his wife was Ratki.
[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That's another name here in our church.
[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So, and then my mother and dad would came later on and take us home.
[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And surprisingly that's when Santa Claus came.
[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we got home from church with a big bag of candy we also had prizes under the tree, you know presents because Santa Claus came while you were at church.
[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it might probably with my mother.
[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I remember my grandma and her brother and Uncle Willie and Aunt Ella and you know like they were next door neighbors.
[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I am so blessed.
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I am so blessed with all these people in my lifetime.
[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And if I can say Grace, we are blessed that you are telling us all about all of them.
[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: This is fascinating for me.
[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So one of the ten commandments of a pastor new to a congregation is,
[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: You shall be a church historian.
[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for filling in me in because I could sit and listen to you tell stories about this place for a long time.
[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd probably learn a lot.
[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: As long as we are taped.
[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Then I could tell you maybe some stories that wouldn't be so good taped.
[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So Grace, you know you go back to kind of big picture things that happen for you.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know your dad Arnold and the decision to make to for you guys to have a Christian education.
[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Mr. Poland especially who made sure that you learned your catechism and your hymns.
[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: What are some other really significant things that stick out for you that shaped you into the person that you are?
[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, one thing I worked at Paps Farms.
[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know that.
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't know that.
[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: For 30 years.
[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So for our listeners who are new and don't know the history there, tell people what Paps Farms was.
[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, when I got out I wanted to go to college but my dad said no.
[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We had to go out and earn some money.
[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did not when I graduated from high school.
[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I did not have a job because I still had it thinking in my mind that I was going to go to college.
[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But Paps Farms called the office a week before I graduated and they needed a secretary.
[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I went out there and got the job and I was 18 and everybody else was like 50, you know.
[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I told my dad I didn't like it.
[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He said stick it out for three months and then if you don't like it.
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So in the Paps Farms that was the big farming operation that is south of town, right?
[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And they grew hops and others for the Paps Brewery in Milwaukee.
[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they had a lot of cows and I was hired to work in the cattle department.
[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: In the cattle department?
[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. It was like working in a hospital instead of people I had cows.
[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I kept the pregnancy records of all the cows and the veterinarian would come through the herd about once or twice a month
[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and write it down on a paper and I had to put it in the vial.
[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So this was a big industrial farm as it were?
[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of farmers around here shipped milk there.
[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So when the cattle department, when the highway went through I-94, the herd was dispersed.
[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Paps has had seven farms, one three five and seven two four six.
[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And we kept all the records and when the highway went through Mr. Paps wanted to build an overpass or underpass
[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: so they could get to all the farms and the state would not allow it.
[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So then the herd was dispersed and then they put me in the dairy department where I made out the farmers paychecks twice a week, twice a month, twice a month.
[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody around here in Sullivan, Exonia, Okonomowoc, north of all Central America at Paps Farms.
[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was when that was phased out then I worked for the Paps family so I got to know Pappy Paps,
[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: old Fred Paps, he was a brewery president at the time.
[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: He was wonderful. I learned a lot from him.
[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: What did you learn from him?
[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Well the first day I was called into his office and you big office and you always shut the door.
[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And he told me two things I should remember.
[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Fred Paps, the head of the whole thing.
[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The head of the brewery. And he bought this farm out here as a hobby farm.
[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a huge industrial farm. He bought it as a hobby farm.
[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: What did he tell you?
[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: He told me the first thing to remember is when I go out the front door to forget everything I heard in there.
[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it was like a bank. We took care of the Paps family from California, Utah, Colorado, Vermont, Massachusetts.
[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We did all the paperwork out here to trust and all that.
[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And the second thing was put a date on everything.
[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Without a date you pick something up a couple years later.
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It means nothing to you without a date.
[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And for our younger listeners this is a big deal because you're dealing entirely in paper.
[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So whereas now our young kids, if we're used to have everything digitally time stamped but you didn't have that back in the day.
[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So you had to make in order to keep things in order.
[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You had to have dates on it.
[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: In the old typewriters we made all these farmers paychecks twice a month.
[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And the price of milk would come in two or three days before the farmers wanted their checks.
[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes we worked Saturdays and Sundays.
[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody typing around to get those checks out.
[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And how long did you work for them?
[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, at least 30-35 years.
[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And I loved it.
[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I always said I wouldn't even work out there even if I didn't get paid.
[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was a little bit of a lie.
[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But Mr. Paps was so wonderful.
[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Such a wonderful human being.
[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He would sit, you know, as wealthy as he was.
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: He would sit on the edge of your seat and talk to you like a father.
[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, instead of having a birthday inviting all his brewery friends over, he'd have us office.
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Little lady running around with black outfits on, the little white caps I thought I was in Hollywood.
[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Grace, you counted the fields of the Paps farm in a rather interesting way.
[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And when you just kind of did it from memory, like this is the way we always did it,
[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_03]: you said one-three-five-seven-two-four-six.
[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Why count them that way?
[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the first farm was the office.
[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: If you go out there now, I think it's pretty well-ended right now.
[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But three was where all those buildings are.
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And then five was Tesco's.
[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, every farm had a purpose.
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And farm seven was a big farm.
[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where the highway is right now.
[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So for our listeners, you might not know the area, but I have a general idea.
[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Interstate 94, which if you go from Chicago north to Milwaukee and then it begins to head west
[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and cuts right through the area, it ended up cutting right through.
[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So this would have been built in the late 50s.
[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: When was 94 built?
[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Late 50s, early 60s?
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I really don't know.
[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say for sure.
[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But it basically cut the peps farms in half.
[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: In half.
[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so to get from one farm to another farm with a farm machinery, we'd have to go all the way around.
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And so Mr. Paps wanted that overpass.
[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But the state didn't allow it.
[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is so much history at peps farms.
[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Did the interstate separate the odd numbered fields from the even numbered fields?
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think it did come to think about it.
[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I never thought about that.
[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But yes, one was the farm office and three was, I don't know, farm five was someplace else.
[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But farm seven was a big farm.
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: So where was two, four and six?
[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: They were more on Dellefield Road, out that way.
[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: South side of the freeway.
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes, yes.
[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We're now where Aurora Hospital is.
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so two, four and six were south of 94.
[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: One, three, five and seven.
[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: This side.
[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We're this side of it.
[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So just the way you counted the farms in your head as you as you recall that was just really charming to me.
[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And I wanted to find out a little bit more about why they did that.
[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to touch back to the things we've said that you've said really shaped you into who you are.
[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And the first is dad.
[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's another Arnold because there were two there.
[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Arnold is your dad and Arnold was your seventh, eighth grade teacher.
[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Different last names.
[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Poland.
[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Poland was this teacher, right?
[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we talked about the people that you came in contact with here at St. Paul's school.
[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You talked about working at PAPS Farms for 30 years and that really shaped you.
[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: When you quit working or maybe even while you were working because it was literally with a week of high school left that you got hired at PAPS Farms.
[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: So you went from high school to working at PAPS Farms somewhere along the line there, my dear.
[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You got a family of your own.
[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You met a Methodist boy.
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to imagine he kind of shaped you a little bit too.
[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he was a wonderful, wonderful person.
[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: He took such good care of me.
[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you meet Dwayne?
[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a story that...
[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That we can't tell on the mic?
[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man!
[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I would not...
[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes ma'am, we will honor that.
[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So you had a family, you got married and you had your own kids?
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: No, my children are adopted.
[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That's got to have shaped you as well, adopting children.
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: There's so...
[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you get to be an old person, there are so many people that shape your mind.
[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Who you are.
[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all the experiences that you've had with all these wonderful people.
[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I must say I've met very few bad people in my life.
[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I've always tried to see the good part, forget about the bad, because we all have a little bad on us.
[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: A little, she says.
[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But Dwayne's family was wonderful and his mother...
[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: He went to Bible study camps a long time when he was even in high school
[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and his mother could say the most wonderful prayers.
[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It was off the cuff.
[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It included everybody, you know.
[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were up in Black River Falls.
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And whenever a minister would come, whether it's Catholic priest or whatever,
[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_00]: she would always throw out an invitation.
[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: She roomed and bored them, you know, gave them a car.
[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't make any difference who they were.
[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: She did so much of Black River Falls.
[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And when people were practically dying, they always called her.
[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted her to pray.
[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So she was a wonderful mother.
[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So he came from a very pious family?
[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, he did.
[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was very close to all his cousins and aunts and other cousins.
[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He was brought up a little bit like me, you know.
[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't ever have the argument with anybody.
[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It was all laughter, telling Polish jokes, German jokes, whatever.
[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody had a good time.
[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And what is he to remind me?
[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Is he a Swede?
[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So I assume there was some Swedish jokes in there.
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: With the last name being Olsen, son of Oli.
[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: When he had one or two old fashions,
[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: he could really do the brogue, you know, a lot of Oli and Lena jokes.
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he would tell the Oli and the Lena jokes.
[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sounds like him.
[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And the night before Christmas, he had a Swedish joke
[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: twice the night before Christmas and, you know, it was wonderful.
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03]: But you notice Grace isn't going to repeat that joke.
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_03]: That's okay my dear, you don't have to.
[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't tell you.
[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You would change your opinion, I mean.
[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I doubt it.
[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, we had, well, Dwayne got drafted in the army.
[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: He was in the Marines first, went through all the training
[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: in the Marines for three years and then we got married
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and quit that and three years later the army got him
[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and we got sent out to Washington State.
[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, because this is during the Korean conflict, right?
[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, no, it was a German uprising.
[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: What years are we talking about?
[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: 1960.
[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if this is Berlin?
[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the Berlin crisis came up.
[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: No kidding, wow.
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So how was he involved in that?
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, he didn't ever go overseas.
[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But he went through training and we had been on a camping trip
[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: around Lake Superior.
[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We were married three years and sleeping in tents
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and sleeping bags, we didn't stay at any motel.
[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We did a lot of camping out in our lifetime.
[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we got home he noticed that he was drafted
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: in the army and so after basic training in Missouri
[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: he was sent out to Washington State and we stayed out there
[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: during the army.
[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we loved it so much that we stayed out there
[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: for 10 years.
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't remember that.
[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you were out in Washington State for 10 years?
[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And we did everything.
[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We have movies of Duane skiing down in the water
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: in shirtsleeves and rainforests
[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and I had relatives up in Canada.
[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_00]: My cousin lived in Canada.
[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Where did you live in Washington?
[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Olympia.
[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no kidding, okay.
[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I got a really good job at the State Department
[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was so bored, you know, Duane was in service.
[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you worked for the State Department for a time?
[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And what did you do for them?
[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I took a lot of dictation.
[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Just an analyst.
[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What?
[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He actually thinks you were a spy but you're being coy about it.
[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I took a lot of dictation.
[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I worked for the Employment Security Department
[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and they did a lot of Boeing disputes
[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and we would take shorthand for a whole day.
[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing but shorthand and these people,
[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: examiners would go on in the field
[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we would type it up rough draft.
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So I had, and PAPS firms too, I took a lot of dictation.
[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So it strikes me that in your professional life
[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: between Fred PAPS and the PAPS family
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the U.S. government
[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you were entrusted with a lot of secrets.
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, yes.
[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So a trustworthy person.
[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not everybody gets to keep that job.
[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I was taught by Mr. PAPS.
[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did a lot of dictation
[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and getting back to PAPS when he had a private secretary
[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and when she would go on vacation,
[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I did all this work.
[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Got it, okay.
[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you want to hear this story
[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: but one of the letters that I typed up,
[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. PAPS was thanking somebody for a plaque
[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and I typed Plague.
[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And it went out.
[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no!
[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it went out and I got called on the carpet for that one.
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my.
[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only time I got called on the carpet.
[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you on behalf of Fred.
[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: For giving me the plaque.
[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if the PAPS family are listening to this
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but it doesn't make any difference.
[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Grace.
[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a great story.
[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That only makes me love you more.
[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I could tell you another story about PAPS farms
[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: but someday off the counter.
[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Someday when we're not recording.
[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So we got to finish up here episode two.
[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious since you've been at St. Paul's here
[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: most of your life with a 10 year interlude.
[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: A 10 year hiatus out west.
[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, when I came back after 10 years
[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I got my job back right away.
[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, back at PAPS Farms?
[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they called me.
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And your church pew back.
[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, mostly.
[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And we belong to a Trinity Lutheran church out in Olympia.
[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Out in Olympia.
[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So what were you most happy about when you came back
[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to St. Paul's in Wisconsin?
[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: What was most pleasing to you?
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, just stepping inside the church
[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and let's see who is a minister here then.
[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Was Closing here then?
[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And Closing had his first beer in Okonomouc
[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and my younger brother's confirmation party.
[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: He'd never had a beer before.
[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember Closing said this, Pastor Closing.
[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the first beer I've had in Okonomouc.
[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Not the first beer of his life.
[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Not the first beer I've had in Okonomouc.
[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I remember him saying that.
[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He is a German pastor.
[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Things the Lutheran pastor says.
[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He was wonderful.
[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: All the pastors that I've known
[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and one of the Gunther's,
[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Pastor Gunther.
[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, one of the early, early, yeah.
[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember my dad talking about him.
[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he was my dad's pastor,
[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but mentioning his name.
[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you guys go back almost all the way here.
[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But getting back to my kids really fast.
[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: They were adopted out at Washington State.
[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And my cousin, Neoma Rupno,
[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm related to the Rupnos,
[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: she got the babies right out of the hospital
[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: until they were adopted out.
[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And how old were you when you adopted the kids?
[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was 25 when I got married, probably 30.
[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So we adopted them out there.
[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It was wonderful.
[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: But the teenage years are a little rough.
[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It can be a challenge.
[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And you had a cousin who helped facilitate all of that?
[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: She was married, well,
[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you probably won't remember Peggy Lauber.
[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Did you remember?
[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Died a couple years ago.
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Her father was my first cousin of Franklin
[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and was Franklin's sister that was out at Olympia.
[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And we would go up a lot of weekends,
[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: spend the weekend with them.
[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And Neoma Rupno and I got to be very close.
[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, her daughter comes to see me now.
[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: She's from New York, Minnesota.
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And they stay three, four days at my house.
[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And wonderful.
[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of relatives to talk about, you know.
[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's amazing.
[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have to, our time is up here.
[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately.
[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's amazing to see all the connections, grace and, you know,
[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and from the very beginning, you know, the Christian faith that was
[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: so important to your parents and that is imbued in your life.
[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Great to see that in the life of service that you've lived.
[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We're very thankful that you finally agreed to come
[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and be a guest.
[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I lost a lot of sleep over this.
[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't so bad, was it?
[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I might even do it again sometime.
[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: We would be honored.
[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That would be a treat.
[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to probably have you, we need to get your sister on here too.
[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01]: If she'll do it.
[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Florence will come and talk to us.
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to have her come.
[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, maybe we can get them both at the same time.
[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Lord have mercy.
[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: The Lopno girls.
[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you shouldn't take that one.
[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And friends, that's a good place for us to sign off and say thanks
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[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Christ in All Things is a production of St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 210 East Pleasant Street
[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: in Oconama, W.W.
[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: For more information about St. Paul's visit splco.org.
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[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Intro and Outro Music setting by Joseph Hurl.
[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Copyright 1998 Concordia Publishing House used with permission.