It is flat-out amazing the stories that you can hear simply by asking someone the origins and meaning of their name. Then, when you ask, “What are the top three-to-five things that formed you as a human being,” well, that’s a recipe for a really great conversation. From the tragic and inspiring story from which Kerri got her name, to the challenges of changing churches and its impact on friendship, you will enjoy meeting Kerri Helwig, who brings a winsome and airy honesty to discussion of the Christian life.
Recorded 27 February, A.D. 2024.
[00:00:00] You can't Ghost People if you want to make friends.
[00:00:02] That's just how it is.
[00:00:05] There is the quote today.
[00:00:08] And that, that serves you'll hear that again.
[00:00:12] That's actually a key for you can't Ghost People if you want to make friends.
[00:00:26] Welcome to Christ In All Things, a conversation about meaning and purpose.
[00:00:31] It's based on a verse from the Bible, Colossians chapter 1 verse 17, which says,
[00:00:36] Christ is before all things and in Him all things hold together.
[00:00:41] Christ In All Things is a listening ear into conversations about receiving and giving the love
[00:00:47] and hope of Christ.
[00:00:48] These conversations are an invitation because as much as you'll hear, and as much as we enjoy having them,
[00:00:55] digital media operates from a distance.
[00:00:58] And that's not what's best for us with God or with one another.
[00:01:03] So thanks for listening.
[00:01:04] And if you're in the neighborhood, we invite you to participate in person in the life that finds
[00:01:09] a tapah center at St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 210 East Pleasant Street in O'Connor, Wisconsin.
[00:01:26] Welcome to Christ In All Things.
[00:01:27] I am Pastor Lance Odonnell.
[00:01:29] I'm Pastor Jason Schockman and we have a special guest with us today named.
[00:01:33] Keri Hullwig.
[00:01:35] Yeah, delighted to have you, Keri.
[00:01:36] We had a lot of fun off air before we were as we were getting settings ready.
[00:01:40] So maybe just a little bit too much.
[00:01:43] We're delighted to have you with us, Keri.
[00:01:47] And so let's dive in on, you know, you are Keri and it's C-A-R-R.
[00:01:52] No, it's K-K-R.
[00:01:55] And it's not short for anything.
[00:01:56] That's the way it is listed on your birth certificate, which is really fun.
[00:02:00] So what does it mean?
[00:02:02] Well, my Keri, the actual like definition, like I've looked up like origins of it.
[00:02:10] I guess it's Irish.
[00:02:12] Indeed.
[00:02:13] Just out of curiosity, I looked it up and it's what I found.
[00:02:18] But my parents were not Irish, you know, by any means.
[00:02:24] They just like the name.
[00:02:26] Well, it kind of has some sort of a background, I guess.
[00:02:32] So my parents had a, like, one of a good family friend who, my dad and,
[00:02:41] the brother of this other family, they were best friends like growing up in high school.
[00:02:50] And it's a bit of a sad story.
[00:02:55] So his best friend in high school had a sister named Shari.
[00:03:01] And so that's where I got my name from was her.
[00:03:05] They kind of, you know, didn't want to do exactly.
[00:03:08] So they just kind of picked something that rhymed a little bit.
[00:03:13] But Shari and her family were hit by a drunk driver and all but their, one of their daughters,
[00:03:23] one out of two of them.
[00:03:25] She was the only survivor of that.
[00:03:27] So kind of, yeah, it was kind of like a.
[00:03:30] So the whole family?
[00:03:32] Yeah, the mom, the dad, the other daughter, they all passed away from this drunk driving incident.
[00:03:38] And Shari was the only survivor.
[00:03:41] No, her, the daughter, the sister was the mom at this point.
[00:03:46] Okay.
[00:03:47] So got it.
[00:03:48] But Shari was one of those who died in the accident.
[00:03:52] So it carries means dark and mysterious.
[00:04:00] That's me, maybe unknowingly right?
[00:04:04] Made a reference to the reason they picked that name.
[00:04:06] Dark and mysterious.
[00:04:08] What an interesting, did they talk too much about that when you were growing up?
[00:04:13] You just know the story of the name?
[00:04:15] Yeah, so they, it can't remember when she passed away.
[00:04:23] But it was after I was old enough to know that they weren't around.
[00:04:32] So like, we weren't particularly, like we didn't particularly hang out as,
[00:04:39] like my parents didn't hang out with Shari that much in adulthood.
[00:04:43] Like I never had really any interaction with her.
[00:04:47] But I just kind of, I think after hanging out with their, like my dad's friend,
[00:04:56] we, they eventually just kind of told me the story.
[00:05:02] But how did you feel when you heard that story?
[00:05:05] I thought it was interesting.
[00:05:06] I knew that like so the remaining daughter who was around still,
[00:05:14] kind of was adopted or whatever by her grandparents.
[00:05:20] And we did family function stuff with them and everything.
[00:05:23] So it had been a long time after Shari was gone when I finally under like new and understood the story.
[00:05:34] So yeah, I mean it was, and I was younger.
[00:05:36] So it was just one of those things where it's like interesting to know,
[00:05:42] but it wasn't like, it's more impactful to me now than it was then.
[00:05:46] I would imagine.
[00:05:47] I, you know, because how so?
[00:05:49] I mean, I am a lot closer to, you know, probably the age that she was.
[00:05:55] Oh sure.
[00:05:56] So like it's, it's, um, you understand things differently.
[00:06:01] Yeah.
[00:06:01] If you're in the adult, even if it's something you knew as a child.
[00:06:04] Yep.
[00:06:05] You just think back on it, you know, like wow, that's actually, um, really interesting or like hits you in a different way.
[00:06:14] I, I, I love these questions on the name because it, on the one hand,
[00:06:18] it seems so simple.
[00:06:20] And then you, you kind of dive into it and very often there's a, there's a really fascinating story.
[00:06:25] And I, I kind of resonate with you.
[00:06:27] There's a whole story with my parents behind my name.
[00:06:31] And the older I get, the more I appreciate it.
[00:06:36] Mm-hmm.
[00:06:36] So yeah.
[00:06:37] So carry, we know your first name, carry.
[00:06:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:06:40] Rangs will share.
[00:06:42] Yeah.
[00:06:42] And that's why, that's always chosen for you.
[00:06:46] So carry does come from Irish roots.
[00:06:49] It actually comes from the, the, the clan, Karen.
[00:06:54] Uh, and it means again, it means dark, mysterious.
[00:06:59] Your middle name.
[00:07:03] Can with any.
[00:07:04] Mm-hmm.
[00:07:05] With any.
[00:07:06] Do you, do you have you ever dug into what that one means?
[00:07:09] No.
[00:07:10] Um, as far as I understand, they picked that because it sounded good with carry.
[00:07:13] And it's just like a filler.
[00:07:14] There we go.
[00:07:15] There we go.
[00:07:15] Right?
[00:07:15] Little one.
[00:07:16] Carry in.
[00:07:17] So from, I from it's Irish roots, it means radiance or brilliance.
[00:07:23] So dark and mysterious.
[00:07:25] That's radiant.
[00:07:26] But it also, it also comes from a Hebrew root.
[00:07:28] Right?
[00:07:29] You can get to Anne from a Hebrew root.
[00:07:31] And if it comes from the Hebrew and biblical root, it means grace.
[00:07:35] Or God has favored me.
[00:07:38] Right?
[00:07:38] So either way, whether it's Irish or Hebrew in origin,
[00:07:43] and refers to something that's radiant or someone that God has favored.
[00:07:49] Or I thought was pretty interesting too.
[00:07:51] It is interesting.
[00:07:52] So now, how do you feel?
[00:07:53] No, not hearing that side of it.
[00:07:54] I honestly didn't, you know, I'd never really like researched my middle name at all.
[00:08:00] So it's because it was just a filler.
[00:08:02] That's pretty cool.
[00:08:03] Because it was just a filler.
[00:08:04] Yeah.
[00:08:05] But it's actually really cool.
[00:08:07] All right.
[00:08:07] So your last name made in name, foster, married name, Hellwik.
[00:08:14] So talk about, let's talk about your maiden name.
[00:08:16] Do you know what that one means?
[00:08:19] Well, my teachers in high school like to crack jokes and sociology about, you know, foster children.
[00:08:26] Okay.
[00:08:27] Couldn't be further further.
[00:08:27] I was hoping it would be about the beer from Australia's.
[00:08:31] Okay.
[00:08:33] No, that was.
[00:08:34] And all Australians would tell you that like Germans, we,
[00:08:37] it, we export the worst of our beer.
[00:08:39] Yeah.
[00:08:40] We keep the good stuff for ourselves.
[00:08:42] Makes sense.
[00:08:42] That right.
[00:08:44] So foster from the German root means it works on a forest.
[00:08:49] Makes sense.
[00:08:50] From the French root.
[00:08:52] And this one I thought you might appreciate more means,
[00:08:56] Cis or maker.
[00:08:58] Okay.
[00:08:58] Or one who, or even, one who makes with scissors.
[00:09:03] I am pretty crafty.
[00:09:04] You are pretty crafty.
[00:09:07] I thought you might like that.
[00:09:09] Right.
[00:09:09] And then there's the Helwig, which is your married name.
[00:09:13] Mm-hmm.
[00:09:13] What does a Helwig?
[00:09:14] Helwig.
[00:09:15] Very German.
[00:09:16] Yeah, it is.
[00:09:17] Yeah.
[00:09:18] It means literally luck war.
[00:09:24] Yeah.
[00:09:25] A luck in war.
[00:09:26] Or you could translate it as a bright battle or a shining war.
[00:09:30] Generally it was applied to people who were victorious in battle time and time again.
[00:09:37] I like it.
[00:09:38] Okay.
[00:09:40] Or you could say.
[00:09:42] Brett's kind of got that.
[00:09:45] You're just, you know, I'm a German.
[00:09:48] Are you Steve Trees?
[00:09:49] Kind of.
[00:09:50] Steve Trees.
[00:09:52] How's that what it says?
[00:09:54] That's how it is says at all.
[00:09:57] Oh, what am I going to do with you?
[00:10:00] All right.
[00:10:02] So carry and Helwig or, which is your name currently.
[00:10:07] So if we string it all together, right?
[00:10:11] It's a mysterious grace that is a shining battle.
[00:10:16] Well, there you go.
[00:10:19] She's not there had gone.
[00:10:22] Yeah.
[00:10:26] Which doesn't really fill in, but the more we get into the next question we might find.
[00:10:33] And I think we've seen this before pastoral tunnel.
[00:10:36] I think this is one of the beautiful things about actually asking about what your name means.
[00:10:42] The more we get into the story of what has shaped and formed you into who you are,
[00:10:48] the more often we link back to these meanings of your name and go, wow,
[00:10:54] nobody could have guessed that.
[00:10:57] So often the biblical names are chosen based on the circumstances of the person's birth or the prophesied nature of that person's life.
[00:11:05] Right? And I think often when we reflect back on our names,
[00:11:13] we see them play out in ways that we wouldn't necessarily think.
[00:11:17] But it's just the way God knocks it out as a for instance.
[00:11:21] Jason Alex means healing leader who to thunk that I had an up in this gig, right?
[00:11:28] And you're a Lutheran not a pen and a gospel pass.
[00:11:30] I know.
[00:11:32] Oh, there you go.
[00:11:34] It's such a good thing. So, Kerry, under the second question then.
[00:11:39] So what are we asked you? What are the top three to five things that kind of formed you as a human being?
[00:11:46] What's the top thing that comes to mind for you when you hear that enormous question?
[00:11:51] Yeah, one's pretty loaded.
[00:11:54] I guess you know, a big thing is I grew up in the faith very, very strongly.
[00:12:01] My parents were incredible with that.
[00:12:06] You know, they were tough on us at times.
[00:12:08] Like you better get your butt up and go get ready for church like because we're going.
[00:12:13] No, you just said us. So I'm assuming we're talking siblings.
[00:12:16] Yeah, yeah. So I have a younger sister and a younger brother.
[00:12:20] Okay.
[00:12:22] And now if I remember your farm family?
[00:12:24] Yep.
[00:12:25] Okay. What kind of farm?
[00:12:26] So it's northern Illinois. So it's pretty flat.
[00:12:30] So we just do row crops, which is corn and soybeans.
[00:12:33] Okay. What part of northern Illinois?
[00:12:36] Oh, like Dickson, Rochelle? Got it.
[00:12:39] In between there really because if I told you exactly where you'd have no idea what else to say about.
[00:12:44] It's right.
[00:12:44] So but West Brooklyn, Illinois.
[00:12:46] West Brooklyn.
[00:12:48] If you want to be specific.
[00:12:51] Now we are.
[00:12:54] So Christian faith.
[00:12:56] Deeply important for your parents.
[00:12:58] Now, were they?
[00:13:00] No, and you weren't. I mean, you're a Luther now in marriage, but you grew up.
[00:13:05] What denominational.
[00:13:06] Not denominational.
[00:13:08] And is that where your parents both came from or was that something they came to a agreement on?
[00:13:13] I think yeah it was so my.
[00:13:17] Oh gosh.
[00:13:17] I'm trying to think back to like how my parents like where they grew up in.
[00:13:25] But they actually met at a Christian like youth Bible study.
[00:13:33] Is where they actually met and that was like an open Bible church?
[00:13:36] Yeah.
[00:13:37] How old were they?
[00:13:39] Oh gosh, they.
[00:13:40] I was born.
[00:13:42] I think when my mom was like 22.
[00:13:45] So it had to have been.
[00:13:46] So they were in late late late.
[00:13:49] Two weeks maybe.
[00:13:50] Late teens early 20.
[00:13:51] Yes, because my dad's two years older.
[00:13:53] Okay.
[00:13:54] So yeah, real, real early there in life.
[00:13:57] Love it.
[00:13:59] Well, and you and Brett got married.
[00:14:00] I mean, you how old were you when when you and Brett got married?
[00:14:03] When we actually got married, I was 24.
[00:14:06] I think so.
[00:14:07] Yeah.
[00:14:09] It's not.
[00:14:10] No.
[00:14:10] Close.
[00:14:11] She likes to, you know, throw me a little shade sometimes.
[00:14:14] So I haven't had a kid yet and I was born and she is 22.
[00:14:17] But yeah.
[00:14:18] We will we'll ignore that fact.
[00:14:19] I got your mom's mom throws you the shade on that.
[00:14:22] Yeah, mom does fun.
[00:14:23] I would imagine.
[00:14:25] Yep.
[00:14:26] She is fun with it.
[00:14:28] So but.
[00:14:29] So talk a little bit more about being raised in the faith.
[00:14:32] You know, so you said there was no option on Sunday morning.
[00:14:36] Right.
[00:14:37] Yep.
[00:14:38] It.
[00:14:39] I don't know if they had us going to.
[00:14:43] Some of us went and all the time.
[00:14:44] You're something that is...
[00:14:44] You grew every week as well.
[00:14:46] Okay.
[00:14:46] It would drive us around and take us to all of the things, you know, for being involved and at
[00:14:53] the church that we went to when I was in high school, they would
[00:14:59] make sure that you know, like, they made good friends with some other
[00:15:04] church members and those were our friends too.
[00:15:08] Like their kids were our friends.
[00:15:09] So it was like very like very involved like in that way,
[00:15:16] just making actual friends in real life
[00:15:18] versus like someone you say hi to, you know,
[00:15:20] they were very...
[00:15:21] So those friends that you had through your parents' friends,
[00:15:25] that wasn't an option either.
[00:15:28] These are not.
[00:15:29] They're not.
[00:15:30] Yeah, these are your friends.
[00:15:31] These are your friends.
[00:15:32] Yes.
[00:15:34] But yeah, no we...
[00:15:36] It was kind of like you grow up with these kids
[00:15:39] and they're just kind of someone who's always like gonna be around in life and stuff.
[00:15:47] So it's like, we don't talk super frequently anymore.
[00:15:52] But you know, they're someone who's always like,
[00:15:55] I could reach out to and be like,
[00:15:57] hey, how are you doing?
[00:15:57] But you do have some contact.
[00:15:59] Yeah.
[00:16:00] Okay.
[00:16:00] So like phone numbers and social media and stuff.
[00:16:03] So I could reach out to them if I wanted to at any time.
[00:16:08] So were your parents involved in church stuff at all?
[00:16:11] Yeah, so when we...
[00:16:14] And the church when I was younger that we went to,
[00:16:19] they were actually youth leaders.
[00:16:21] Oh yeah.
[00:16:21] So they'd help with the youth group and us, you know,
[00:16:27] elementary, like middle schoolers got to tag along
[00:16:30] for the youth retreat.
[00:16:32] So it was pretty cool with the older kids.
[00:16:34] With the big kids, yeah.
[00:16:35] So we had...
[00:16:36] We got to hang out because we were there with our parents and they were like...
[00:16:39] So that's...
[00:16:40] I mean, that says something to me.
[00:16:43] You could very often as parents,
[00:16:46] we kind of focus on the age group that our kids are in.
[00:16:49] But your parents were working...
[00:16:51] High schoolers.
[00:16:52] They were involved in with kids that weren't in...
[00:16:57] Did you kind of grow up into that?
[00:16:59] Were they still youth leaders in high school?
[00:17:01] When you...
[00:17:02] When you got to high school?
[00:17:03] And also we actually switched churches before.
[00:17:06] Sure.
[00:17:07] Yeah, with non-denominational stuff can get weird.
[00:17:12] So we're like, this is weird, piece out.
[00:17:15] And then I was very angry.
[00:17:16] I was like, oh gosh, I had to have been like seventh grade.
[00:17:20] I was very angry with them for a long time.
[00:17:23] And for the church switch.
[00:17:25] Yes.
[00:17:25] Okay.
[00:17:26] Yep.
[00:17:26] And I kind of pushed everybody away.
[00:17:32] Oh, yeah.
[00:17:33] For probably about a year or so.
[00:17:39] But then eventually, you know, as people were trying to be my friend more and more,
[00:17:43] I was like, oh, all right.
[00:17:44] You know, it's...
[00:17:46] In the new church that you were attending.
[00:17:49] Yeah.
[00:17:49] Gotcha.
[00:17:49] Because a lot of kids that were at my old church were also people that I was in school with.
[00:17:56] Oh, sure.
[00:17:58] So there was like, I know these people from school and we go to church together.
[00:18:02] And now you're going to pull me into a different church with all these other kids that are at different schools.
[00:18:08] Like, one of my schools to do.
[00:18:10] I'm not gonna have any friends.
[00:18:12] I'm like 14 years old.
[00:18:13] This is a critical time for me.
[00:18:15] Yeah.
[00:18:16] So how did that work out for you?
[00:18:18] It worked out in the end.
[00:18:20] It did.
[00:18:20] Because like the parents or the friends,
[00:18:23] the mandatory friends quote,
[00:18:26] are the ones that are second church.
[00:18:28] So I came around.
[00:18:31] How did go for your younger siblings?
[00:18:34] A lot better, I think.
[00:18:37] Because so when I was at the previous church,
[00:18:40] I was already in youth group at that time.
[00:18:44] And they were too young to be in youth group still.
[00:18:47] So when we went to the new church,
[00:18:49] they let me slide in because I was in youth group at my previous church.
[00:18:53] So I was the youngest one in there.
[00:18:56] I felt, I don't know what the good word for it is, but I didn't feel.
[00:19:01] I wasn't like, I was like, I'm the youngest kid in here.
[00:19:03] Like, who am I supposed to be friends with?
[00:19:04] That dude's like 20 over there.
[00:19:07] Probably 17.
[00:19:10] But when you're 13 or 14, that's a pretty big difference.
[00:19:15] So.
[00:19:16] I got a guy shows up to youth group rocking a mustache and you know.
[00:19:21] I'm 12, sorry.
[00:19:22] I gotta go.
[00:19:27] So number one is it for you.
[00:19:30] You were raised in the Christian faith.
[00:19:32] You're going to church.
[00:19:34] This is part of who you are.
[00:19:38] But I think, but I think we shouldn't jump past the story
[00:19:40] of how the church changing also affected you.
[00:19:47] Right.
[00:19:48] Because that I imagine had some lasting effects on you as far as transitioning from high school
[00:19:56] college or from junior high to high school when other things changed as well.
[00:20:03] Does that make sense?
[00:20:04] Yeah, I mean it's, I wouldn't say that's particularly easy for me to like make friends.
[00:20:10] I don't, I mean maybe it comes from that where I had friends and they were quote taken away.
[00:20:16] And I had to try and make new friends.
[00:20:21] It's not one of my strong suits, I guess.
[00:20:24] If I'm talking like, I can socialize.
[00:20:27] Like that's not a big deal.
[00:20:29] It's like finding or like making connections with like,
[00:20:33] like having a real like true friend where it's like,
[00:20:36] can call you on my worst day and, you know, like a friend like that.
[00:20:42] Those are, those are hard for me to like find like a friend of friend that's like
[00:20:48] forged in Christ's wisdom.
[00:20:51] So potential slight diversion here, but I want it, but since you raised it,
[00:20:56] I want to, I want to go down that road.
[00:21:00] We're, this year we've been doing this this theme on friendship.
[00:21:06] And, you know, you just mentioned that
[00:21:10] kind of making friends is not a, is not an easy thing for you.
[00:21:15] So how have you received all this talk about friendship in church these last few months?
[00:21:23] Is, is that been challenging for you?
[00:21:27] Yeah, I would say it's like, I don't know what should I be doing
[00:21:33] differently.
[00:21:35] Is there something that, like in my head, any to figure out or,
[00:21:41] I don't know, is it that I'm just being too selective?
[00:21:46] I don't, I don't know.
[00:21:48] Is there something that's, these are good questions.
[00:21:50] My, my sense is carry is, especially as I've talked to people in people who are starting to talk to me
[00:21:56] like my sense is you're not unique.
[00:21:59] There are a goodly number of people who are, since we're talking about this and teaching on it.
[00:22:06] I think for some it's, it's unintentionally enhanced a sense of loneliness.
[00:22:16] And, and almost, almost in an eye opening way.
[00:22:19] Yeah, where?
[00:22:20] I thought I had friends.
[00:22:22] Right?
[00:22:22] And I thought I, I thought I knew people, but past or the way you're talking about a friend,
[00:22:26] I don't know that I have one of those, or I don't act toward people that way,
[00:22:31] because I just don't pick one and go, oh okay, yeah, you'll be my friend.
[00:22:37] We wait for things to develop or we wait for a closeness to be felt.
[00:22:44] I carry, I know you're not alone in that heightened sense of boy, am I like, am I not good at this?
[00:22:54] Right?
[00:22:55] What should I be doing different?
[00:22:58] And part of the challenge, I think even for us is in the midst of this, we're preaching to ourselves as well.
[00:23:05] Right? So it's not even that, that I'm looking for the, like, the, the,
[00:23:10] here's the three things I need to do in order to be a good Christian friend.
[00:23:14] Right? As much as I'm seeing these themes that play out in scripture,
[00:23:18] that we can allow to play out in our life with people together, or we can get in the way of it.
[00:23:26] Does that make sense? And I think in fear often we get in the way of it,
[00:23:31] or we get trapped in our own head and we get in the way of it.
[00:23:36] And so like my encouragement through this servant series on friendship in the middle of the week
[00:23:41] that we've been doing in Lent is really to let God's word form and shape our thinking about friendship.
[00:23:51] So the first week it was, hey, look, this isn't, this isn't rocket science, this is,
[00:23:56] this, you just do this, you just make friends. And week two or the first actual week,
[00:24:01] Ash Wednesday was, we're going to look at this and God's going to give us wisdom on this.
[00:24:05] The next week was it's discovered in grace, right? Where it is a gift of God's grace
[00:24:10] that we have friends and that we're called to be friends with other people. It's not something
[00:24:15] we manufacture necessarily, but it does take work if that makes sense. It does.
[00:24:23] It does. You can't ghost people if you want to make friends. That's just how it is.
[00:24:29] There is the quote today. And that, a servant, you'll hear that again.
[00:24:36] Yeah, that's actually a key for you can't ghost people if you want to make friends.
[00:24:42] Right. Certainly if you want to keep them. Yeah. So we've learned Kerry that
[00:24:50] making friends is a challenge for you and maybe it's been a challenge for you since you were told
[00:24:56] your friends were. And then now you correct me, you said the kids you were told these are
[00:25:04] your friends. They were at the second church? Yes. Okay. So you kind of, you kind of got drugged
[00:25:10] into friendship. Then in the second church. Drag. Drag my friend. I know. It's the story I
[00:25:21] went out as a kid. I got drugged a church? Yeah, that's not. Yeah, I don't call it.
[00:25:27] Rugged. Next. So when you are told these are your friends,
[00:25:36] that's not necessarily the same kind of friendship relationship as you have with people that you
[00:25:42] develop a friendship with. Did you looking back? I'm sure in the moment you didn't necessarily
[00:25:49] weren't able to articulate it. But looking back, can you identify a difference between the
[00:25:55] friends that were that you were told these are your friends? And the friends that you had at church
[00:25:59] in school before when you just kind of naturally developed them? Yeah. I mean, it's, I have friends
[00:26:06] so like our high school is pretty small. So it's like there was like 50 people there. So you either
[00:26:15] don't have friends or you find a couple people that you can get along with. And I still have
[00:26:22] like a couple of those friends like to this day where, you know, we're still pretty close.
[00:26:28] But yeah, I can tell a difference between like, hey, we're all stuck here in this place together
[00:26:33] as kids and like we just hang out our families hang out and we're friends versus people like
[00:26:39] you know, I chose to quote chose to be friends with. It's a different like interaction,
[00:26:49] I guess kind of that way. Sure. Yeah, I can tell the difference like how I
[00:26:59] interact with them, I guess. Between between the friends who were chosen for you and the friends
[00:27:08] that you chose. Right, it's there's a deeper connection. I think with the people that like I
[00:27:14] chose to be friends with, you know, because it's those are my people or whatever. And interesting
[00:27:20] that we got because we started with, you know, and we're still technically on number one. Yeah,
[00:27:26] which is, you know, faith but, you know, the connection and I'm glad you, I'm glad you took us back
[00:27:31] to that pastor'shaqman because the, the movement of churches impacted your friendship and let
[00:27:37] us into an interesting part of the conversation. When we come back from our break, which we're
[00:27:43] going to take right now, we're going to go to number two on your list of the top things that
[00:27:48] formed carry hellwick as a human being. Come on back in join us for show notes and other information
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