In Part Two of our conversation with Jackie Meyer she noted that of those conceived with Turner’s Syndrome only two percent live to birth. As a result, Jackie has a profound sense of thankfulness and purpose. This thankfulness and purpose deeply informs the adoption and parenting of their son, indeed, the whole of her life and service in the church, especially with “the little things.”
Recorded 21 February, A.D. 2024
[00:00:00] I wonder how much, for both of you, I wonder how much Jesus words ring true when it comes to your unique kiddos.
[00:00:15] And that word is this, you did not choose me but I have chosen you.
[00:00:21] Yeah.
[00:00:23] Yeah.
[00:00:25] Welcome to Christ In All Things, a conversation about meaning and purpose.
[00:00:34] It's based on a verse from the Bible, Colossians chapter 1 verse 17 which says,
[00:00:39] Christ is before all things and in him all things hold together.
[00:00:44] Christ In All Things is a listening ear into conversations about receiving and giving the love and hope of Christ.
[00:00:51] These conversations are an invitation because as much as you'll hear and as much as we enjoy having them,
[00:00:58] digital media operates from a distance.
[00:01:01] And that's not what's best for us with God or with one another.
[00:01:06] So thanks for listening.
[00:01:08] And if you're in the neighborhood, we invite you to participate in person in the life that finds its epicenter at St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 210 East Pleasant Street in O'Connor, Wisconsin.
[00:01:22] Welcome back to Christ In All Things.
[00:01:27] I'm Pastor Lance O'Donnell.
[00:01:29] I'm Pastor Jason Schachman.
[00:01:31] And we are here with part two of our interview with Jackie Meyer.
[00:01:36] Jackie, welcome back.
[00:01:37] Thank you.
[00:01:38] So when we left our conversation at the break in part one, you mentioned and we were talking about the things that formed you as a human being.
[00:01:47] You mentioned that you have turners, you talked about your strong family and the faith in which you were raised.
[00:01:55] And then you talked about moving to O'Connor and becoming members at St. Paul's.
[00:02:00] And we were talking about participating in church life and how being involved is important to you.
[00:02:06] And that's where we left off and began talking about how important participation is.
[00:02:12] I'd like to come to that, but first via how you are involved in the life of the congregation here.
[00:02:22] So tell our listeners a little bit about how you're presently involved and maybe a little bit how you have been involved in the past personally.
[00:02:32] Oh gosh.
[00:02:34] Well, I was in choir and then work schedule changed.
[00:02:40] And so I wasn't able to continue with that.
[00:02:43] But that is something that I like to do just helping out with the little things, you know.
[00:02:53] So what does that mean?
[00:02:54] We don't actually know.
[00:02:55] That's why we're asking.
[00:02:58] Well, like putting tables and chairs away when needed, setting up for our potluck meals, helping set up and bring something.
[00:03:08] Just finding a little need and filling that need.
[00:03:13] Can you give a couple examples of that latter?
[00:03:16] The last thing you just talked about, you know, finding a need and filling it.
[00:03:19] Can you give a couple examples of something that you did that where you did that?
[00:03:24] Trying to think of a good example.
[00:03:27] Well, my point for asking is at least a twofold.
[00:03:32] But I'm asking this will give you a little bit more time to think about it.
[00:03:37] But for our listeners out there, often people tend to think they have to be involved in some big way.
[00:03:44] And for a person like me, and I imagine for you, Pastor Schachman, you know, if we're on staff here
[00:03:52] and there's stuff that goes on all the time.
[00:03:55] And what often, and you mentioned just picking up chairs, often when you have an event, people just leave.
[00:04:06] But somebody has to put away those chairs and it often ends up being the staff people.
[00:04:11] They have a class at the seminary, tables and chairs, one-on-one.
[00:04:16] They don't really.
[00:04:19] That's actually enormously thoughtful.
[00:04:23] It is.
[00:04:24] To when an event's over to give a few minutes and help out and clean up.
[00:04:30] You mean I think it's actually really, really helpful because if the same people end up doing it all the time,
[00:04:39] every time it ends up being a bit of a discouragement because people set up the event
[00:04:44] and then they have to stick around afterwards.
[00:04:47] But many hands make light work.
[00:04:50] So it's a great...
[00:04:52] And idle hands are a devil's play thing.
[00:04:55] So not having idle hands lending a hand to hope is a great way to not only be involved in participating in the life of the church,
[00:05:04] but keep yourself out of trouble too.
[00:05:06] And for somebody who is a supplanter in Tenacious, or sorry, a rebellious supplanter by name.
[00:05:17] It can be a really helpful thing.
[00:05:20] If you don't know what Pastor Schachman's talking about, you've got to need to go back and listen to episode one about Jackie's name.
[00:05:27] And that is a great combination of you being born with turners and then having what initially,
[00:05:33] because we know you as a very sweet, helpful, active woman of the church.
[00:05:40] To have a name that means powerful names.
[00:05:46] Well us Turner girls are fighters.
[00:05:51] Only 2% of us are born alive.
[00:05:56] And it's about 1 in 2,500 girls that are born with turners.
[00:06:01] So of those conceived with turners, 2% live to birth.
[00:06:10] Wow.
[00:06:12] I mean that's...
[00:06:14] It's essentially...
[00:06:15] So I did a little digging.
[00:06:17] Turners is essentially a...
[00:06:22] Instead of an XX chromosome for a girl, it's an X and a half.
[00:06:29] Or a single X chromosome where there's a whole chunk of that second X chromosome that's missing.
[00:06:37] So for a human conceived in the womb with only an X chromosome, not an XY or not an XX,
[00:06:48] for many who are conceived with turners, it's an incomplete genetic code.
[00:06:54] And so you ended up being one of the...
[00:06:56] 2%.
[00:06:57] That's amazing.
[00:06:58] Jackie's one of the 2%?
[00:06:59] Yeah.
[00:07:00] Yup.
[00:07:01] And so their symbol if you will is the butterfly.
[00:07:07] Because the same percent of butterflies go into a cocoon and make it out of butterfly.
[00:07:14] How about that?
[00:07:15] Okay.
[00:07:16] That makes her a tenacious butterfly.
[00:07:19] That's actually not a bad nickname for her.
[00:07:22] It's not.
[00:07:24] So on that note, let's talk a little bit more about church life and participating because
[00:07:33] right now you work at...
[00:07:36] Yes.
[00:07:37] And that happened during the pandemic as you came over and started working in our early
[00:07:40] childhood center.
[00:07:41] Yes.
[00:07:42] And you're now...
[00:07:43] Are you three years in?
[00:07:45] In September it'll be three.
[00:07:46] In September it'll be three.
[00:07:47] And we're recording on the 21st of February in 2024, so in a few months it'll be three
[00:07:55] years.
[00:07:56] But you've done other things before that.
[00:07:58] I mean you weren't on staff before.
[00:08:00] What were you involved in?
[00:08:02] So I was a medical assistant for 22 years.
[00:08:05] Okay.
[00:08:06] But you were involved in church life?
[00:08:08] Yes.
[00:08:09] We were involved in church life.
[00:08:11] So I was thinking about what you were saying about finding the need.
[00:08:15] I remember this one time there was an elderly lady that we knew that came to church in a
[00:08:21] snowstorm.
[00:08:22] She had walked, had a walker.
[00:08:25] And she came in and we were exchanging pleasantries and she's like, oh, my son's going to be
[00:08:32] so happy that I came to church.
[00:08:34] He's going to be so excited.
[00:08:35] I'm like, you walked in this snowstorm?
[00:08:37] She's like, yeah.
[00:08:38] I'm like, Dave can we bring her home?
[00:08:41] Let's drive her home.
[00:08:43] Yeah.
[00:08:44] So you know little things like that.
[00:08:47] I can see that.
[00:08:50] So what other ways are you involved presently in the life of the congregation?
[00:08:54] Mainly with the ECC doing a lot of things there.
[00:08:59] We recently had the auction and...
[00:09:02] The early childhood center auction?
[00:09:04] Yes.
[00:09:05] And I like to bake.
[00:09:09] I can't cook, but I like to bake.
[00:09:11] Got it.
[00:09:12] All right.
[00:09:13] It's a fine distinction.
[00:09:15] Yeah.
[00:09:16] So I made these panda bear cupcakes.
[00:09:20] Okay.
[00:09:21] And they were sold at auction.
[00:09:23] Those were yours.
[00:09:25] Those are mine.
[00:09:26] Super cute.
[00:09:27] Nice.
[00:09:28] So what other things...
[00:09:29] I mean in terms of your participation.
[00:09:32] I'll help her with this.
[00:09:33] You're going to help her?
[00:09:34] Yeah.
[00:09:35] She's a mom of a school kid.
[00:09:38] Yes.
[00:09:39] And is actively involved in the life of the school through her kid and his activities.
[00:09:45] Yep.
[00:09:46] He plays basketball, loves it.
[00:09:49] And she's at every game.
[00:09:51] Yeah.
[00:09:52] Almost.
[00:09:53] When she's not there, Dave is.
[00:09:55] And often when Dave's there, she is.
[00:09:59] Because Jackie, you come to most of his games.
[00:10:02] I do, unless I'm working or something.
[00:10:05] Right.
[00:10:06] The rare time when it was an early game, right?
[00:10:09] And you couldn't get out of the ECC until after the game.
[00:10:12] Yeah.
[00:10:13] But even then you'd show up at the gym.
[00:10:15] Yep.
[00:10:16] Since we opened that can of worms, I'm going to make an assumption that one of the things on your list is the adoption of your son.
[00:10:24] Absolutely.
[00:10:25] I was trying to transition this.
[00:10:27] So thanks for picking that up.
[00:10:29] So tell us about that in that process and what that is, how that has formed you.
[00:10:42] Well, the process for us was kind of a long process.
[00:10:49] Adoption is like that.
[00:10:52] Can you, can you say so for our listeners who might not understand or know.
[00:10:57] What can you summarize briefly what the process adoption process involves?
[00:11:03] Well, for us we went through LCFS.
[00:11:08] Lutheran Child and Child and Family Services.
[00:11:12] Yeah.
[00:11:13] And so we had the regular home study.
[00:11:22] All the paperwork that goes with that.
[00:11:24] So Jackie just said so we had the regular home study.
[00:11:28] So what is the home study involved?
[00:11:30] So the case worker coming over and interviewing you, looking at your place, checking that it's safe.
[00:11:41] You get recommendations from family and friends where they write the paperwork, your marriage certificate or certificate, all that good stuff.
[00:11:53] And then we also had to make a photo album telling all about ourselves.
[00:12:01] And for the adoption agency.
[00:12:03] Correct.
[00:12:04] So that birth parents could pick you out of a host of other potential adoptive parents.
[00:12:14] Correct.
[00:12:15] To place their child with you.
[00:12:19] Yes.
[00:12:21] That's a lot of waiting, is my guess.
[00:12:23] So you, Pastor O'Donnell, you speak to this from someone who's gone through it.
[00:12:29] Maybe slightly differently because you guys went international.
[00:12:34] I can only ask these questions from someone who hasn't gone through it.
[00:12:39] So when you, Jackie, just say, you know, all the usual stuff or all the usual paperwork.
[00:12:44] I'm over here going, nope, I don't have a clue what that means.
[00:12:48] So like when you say all the usual paperwork, you mean you have to have documented proof of who you are by birth certificate of your marital status by license of your vocation and financial viability, your educational background,
[00:13:08] any academic accomplishment you may have had.
[00:13:12] You really have to compile a written record of your life to present then to an adoption agency, in this case Lutheran Child and Family Services, so that they can investigate and verify that you are indeed A, who you say you are,
[00:13:33] B, that you actually want to adopt a child for the sake of raising the child.
[00:13:37] Right.
[00:13:38] And three or C, that you would be a safe place for that child to grow and be cared for.
[00:13:47] Yep.
[00:13:49] When you're just having a baby, nobody asks for any of that.
[00:13:57] Right.
[00:13:58] If you're just doing straight up biological, right?
[00:14:01] When you're married and decide, hey, we want to have kids.
[00:14:07] God gave us a process for that.
[00:14:11] So for a non-adoptive parent, it's not a little thing to conceive of or to try to conceive of all that you guys did in order to adopt your children.
[00:14:25] Did you guys have to do write up a philosophy of parenting or anything like that as part of your process?
[00:14:32] We didn't have to write it, but we were interviewed about it, nassed about it.
[00:14:37] Okay.
[00:14:39] Carrie and I talked about that afterwards, that the, it seemed, we wish we had done that with the biological kids.
[00:14:50] And I would actually recommend that for any of you listening and if you haven't had children as part of your preparation, even premarital is what is your philosophy of parenting?
[00:15:05] And understanding you're going to learn on the fly and adopt, but having an adapted and change for any of you who slipped there.
[00:15:13] That process is, I found it really helpful.
[00:15:20] Yeah, some of the questions they would ask were definitely made you think about things.
[00:15:26] Right.
[00:15:27] Yeah.
[00:15:28] Okay.
[00:15:29] Give me an example.
[00:15:31] Well, the biggest one was exactly like Pastor said, you know, your philosophy, how would you discipline?
[00:15:37] How would you?
[00:15:39] Yeah, a lot of people don't talk about or talk much about discipline before all of a sudden they have a child.
[00:15:50] Before they have a child and you know, in the couple, you come from two different family backgrounds and we tend to default towards what we did in our families of origin.
[00:16:00] And but talking about it ahead ahead of time, talking about how are we going to do this together for the for the benefit of the child and for our family is really, really beneficial.
[00:16:14] Yeah.
[00:16:15] And so I'm so you go through this process.
[00:16:19] Right.
[00:16:20] And at what point do you find out about Caleb?
[00:16:30] So we were actually here for Wednesday night Bible study.
[00:16:34] Okay.
[00:16:35] And Dave got a call on his cell phone and it was our coordinator saying that there were there was birth parents that wanted to meet us.
[00:16:45] And so.
[00:16:47] A little boy had been born.
[00:16:49] No, he wasn't born yet.
[00:16:50] Okay.
[00:16:51] He wasn't born yet.
[00:16:53] So we actually met them at the agency on our seventh wedding anniversary.
[00:16:59] No kidding.
[00:17:00] It was actually our anniversary that day that we all met and we got to meet them and he was.
[00:17:06] Were you nervous out of your mind?
[00:17:08] Yeah.
[00:17:11] Okay.
[00:17:12] Yeah.
[00:17:13] Yeah.
[00:17:14] But super nice.
[00:17:15] And it was good.
[00:17:19] And he was born in November and we were able to take custody of him for days before Christmas.
[00:17:29] Okay.
[00:17:31] So talk about a really cool seventh wedding anniversary gift.
[00:17:38] And then the Christmas gift of Christmas gifts was bringing Caleb to church.
[00:17:45] Yep.
[00:17:46] Four days after you took custody of him.
[00:17:49] What year was that?
[00:17:50] 2011.
[00:17:51] And was that the first time he came to church with you guys?
[00:17:55] No, so after he was born, he went to a foster home that worked exclusively with the agency.
[00:18:04] All they did was take the babies for the first month.
[00:18:07] That's all they did.
[00:18:09] And so he was with them for the first month until the termination of parental rights.
[00:18:14] And the hearing was all done in official and that's what happened on the 20th.
[00:18:19] And then we took custody of him.
[00:18:22] So I'm curious, you have your Bible or my Bible in front of you.
[00:18:28] And I'd like, I'd love for you to read your confirmation verse, which is 2 Peter chapter three verse 18.
[00:18:38] So reflect a little bit on how that, how that, how this relates to your, your adoption journey.
[00:18:46] So my confirmation verse was, but growing the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
[00:18:57] So how go.
[00:19:00] All right, Jackie.
[00:19:02] You have my Bible in front of you there.
[00:19:05] Your confirmation verse is 2 Peter chapter three verse 18.
[00:19:10] I'd love to hear you read that and then let's talk about how your, the adoption process relates to this.
[00:19:17] But growing the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
[00:19:28] Amen. Indeed. So how does, how does the, how does the adoption process reflected as it were in that, in that verse for you?
[00:19:39] How is, how is being an adoptive parent going through that process helps you to grow in the grace of Christ?
[00:19:46] You definitely are, I think as any parent continuing to learn and grow and to help your child grow in the faith and know God and, and all the other normal parenting stuff that comes with it, school and extracurriculars and.
[00:20:07] So how about the process itself? I'm curious because I mean for Carrie and I, and for our family because we had three biological children when we went through the process, the, the adoption process really deepened our faith and challenged it.
[00:20:26] And I'm curious if you had an analogous experience.
[00:20:32] I can say that I think it definitely brought Dave and I closer together.
[00:20:37] How so?
[00:20:39] The thought provoking questions they would ask you, you know, during, during the interview process and, and when our case worker would come over and do her visits.
[00:20:55] Because she had to visit once a month for six months before we could get our court date to finalize this adoption.
[00:21:01] Wow.
[00:21:02] Yeah.
[00:21:03] And so that's, hang on.
[00:21:06] In as a question in the process.
[00:21:09] So you, before you December 20th for six months before that, you've got a case worker coming over once a month every month.
[00:21:24] Six months after we took custody after you take custody.
[00:21:28] Yep.
[00:21:29] And that's to finalize the custody that you've already procured, but as it were, as it were, but don't yet fully have.
[00:21:40] See that that's such a different thing.
[00:21:42] So you have a, you have a domestic adoption and you're caring for this beautiful little boy and providing him a home and care and bonding with this child.
[00:21:54] All the while knowing that it might not be finalized.
[00:22:00] Right.
[00:22:01] Um, yeah, we weren't grandfather clause in that was a new rule in the midst of our process that changed.
[00:22:09] So she had to write a report once a month and update on how we were doing and how things were going.
[00:22:16] And, um, case worker laughed after the second time she's as Caleb's rolling around the floor laughing like crazy.
[00:22:23] His, his belly laugh that he has and he's, she's like, yeah, he's so unhappy and not adjusted here at all.
[00:22:32] And I imagine that has to, that, you know, it's interesting.
[00:22:39] That moment has to be for both of you, you and Dave, um, a, an affirmation and, uh, and a, and a fulfillment of a fervent, almost lifelong prayer.
[00:22:57] Yep.
[00:22:58] Definitely.
[00:22:59] It's a big deal.
[00:23:00] Yep.
[00:23:01] It was great.
[00:23:02] And then when, so his adoption was finalized on August 1st and it was funny when we were there in the court.
[00:23:12] Caleb was bouncing on Dave's leg the whole time laughing hysterically and, um, the judge like interrupted the lawyer and was like, okay, we're finalizing this.
[00:23:24] And, um, the bailiff took our pictures with everybody and it was great.
[00:23:30] Good for you.
[00:23:31] Once in my services pastor, a family asked me to be present in the courtroom when adoption was finalized.
[00:23:42] That was such a cool moment.
[00:23:44] Yeah.
[00:23:45] Just to bear witness to it.
[00:23:47] I mean, I knew the family.
[00:23:49] I was involved in their life, but just to be able to be there to bear witness to it was really neat.
[00:23:57] I can't even, I can't even imagine the overwhelming joy of being there and having that gift given.
[00:24:15] I wonder how, how much for both of you, I wonder how much Jesus words ring true when it comes to your unique kiddos.
[00:24:31] And that word is this, you did not choose me, but I have chosen you.
[00:24:38] Yeah.
[00:24:39] Yeah.
[00:24:40] Yeah.
[00:24:41] And it was, it was great too.
[00:24:44] Cause the, the judge was super nice judges love adaptions and family court and, um, it's
[00:24:51] the most cheerful thing they get to do.
[00:24:53] Right.
[00:24:54] Right.
[00:24:55] And he said afterwards he came up to us and said, I have a friend who works who has
[00:25:00] a toy company and he tells me to give every adoption a toy.
[00:25:06] So he got to pick out a teddy bear.
[00:25:08] And then when he picked out this teddy bear and it's still his buddy.
[00:25:11] Awesome.
[00:25:12] I love it.
[00:25:13] Yeah.
[00:25:14] I am, you know, I am teary think just thinking about that day for you and it is a different,
[00:25:20] you know, we, we did an international adoption and so everything was done, you know, the
[00:25:26] moment, the moment Brennan became, you know, Donald, you know, yours is that process
[00:25:36] of, you know, and you knew from the moment you and Dave met that this was going to be
[00:25:44] part of your journey.
[00:25:46] Right.
[00:25:47] And that's by the way special, you know, that for you to have that and it becomes,
[00:25:59] it becomes part of your journey as you meet one another.
[00:26:02] Um, this is what it's going to be for us.
[00:26:05] And, and you get, you know, you get married and then at some point that, that paperwork,
[00:26:10] that process begins and it's, you know, you're going to church together and you're, you're
[00:26:17] praying and this is part of your life together.
[00:26:19] And it's a man, that's a long wait.
[00:26:23] Um, how many years were you guys married before you really in earnest started the
[00:26:29] adoption process?
[00:26:31] Two years.
[00:26:32] Okay.
[00:26:33] I think it was two years.
[00:26:34] And it was how many years after that till it was came to pass?
[00:26:37] Five.
[00:26:38] Yeah.
[00:26:39] So you, um, amongst the people in the congregation probably have the, the closest
[00:26:47] approximation of to an understanding of what it was like to be Abraham and Sarah.
[00:26:52] Legitimately.
[00:26:54] Um, the irony by the way is not lost on me that at their seventh wedding anniversary,
[00:27:00] seventh wedding anniversary.
[00:27:02] The fulfillment number.
[00:27:04] Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:05] So Jackie, you know, we've talked about, we've talked about turners.
[00:27:11] We've talked about your family and faith development about coming to St.
[00:27:15] Paul's and participating in church life.
[00:27:17] And we had to talk about your, your adoption or some other things on your,
[00:27:25] on your list beyond that.
[00:27:27] No, I think those are the highlights.
[00:27:30] Yeah.
[00:27:31] Yeah.
[00:27:32] Um, and your, your little man is how old now?
[00:27:36] 12.
[00:27:37] Now 12.
[00:27:39] I'm going to ask you a big question for a very short period of time because we're
[00:27:42] coming up on, we're coming up on time here.
[00:27:45] Um, how has being a parent, so we talked about how the adoption process
[00:27:55] helped you grow in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[00:28:00] How is it, how is a parent being a parent helped you grow in the grace of our Lord Jesus?
[00:28:06] Well, I think that it's definitely helped me.
[00:28:14] I'm thinking of the fruits of the spirit like patients.
[00:28:20] Sure.
[00:28:21] You know, parenting definitely has a lot of patients.
[00:28:24] Kindness.
[00:28:25] Yeah.
[00:28:26] Gentleness.
[00:28:27] Yep.
[00:28:28] That's what I'm immediately thinking about.
[00:28:32] The fruit of the spirit.
[00:28:35] Yep.
[00:28:36] It's the only one way we get it and it's the Holy Spirit making it grow.
[00:28:40] And sometimes he gives us lots of opportunities to practice.
[00:28:44] So for those of you who might not know in our listening, this is from Galatians 5, correct?
[00:28:50] The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness.
[00:28:57] Gentleness.
[00:28:58] Gentleness, faithfulness and self control.
[00:29:01] And self control.
[00:29:02] I had one out of order there.
[00:29:04] That's okay.
[00:29:05] They're all one fruit.
[00:29:08] They are all one fruit.
[00:29:10] Isn't that curious that it's not the fruits of the spirit, it's the fruit of the spirit.
[00:29:16] That we all get it by, you know, we are all baptized into the face having the spirit of God.
[00:29:22] You have these.
[00:29:24] Yeah.
[00:29:25] These singular fruit.
[00:29:28] That cracks me up every time.
[00:29:30] And the challenge by faith is to manifest it.
[00:29:33] There is nothing quite like parenting, I think.
[00:29:36] To tease it out.
[00:29:38] Yeah.
[00:29:40] To draw upon all that.
[00:29:42] It's Jackie, thanks a ton for coming in and talking.
[00:29:46] And thank you for all that you do often in ways that are behind us.
[00:29:51] Thank you for, you know, Jackie works at our early childhood center.
[00:29:54] You have what grade level or what age?
[00:29:57] Two year olds.
[00:29:58] I was thinking you had twos.
[00:29:59] Oh man.
[00:30:00] Yep.
[00:30:01] Everybody twos.
[00:30:02] You are a special human being.
[00:30:03] In so many ways.
[00:30:04] And we're glad not just to know you, but to have you as a sister in Christ and to have
[00:30:09] you as a part of our congregation.
[00:30:10] So thank you for your time today.
[00:30:13] Listeners at Christ in All Things, we'll see you next time.
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